TheSoulMan is right. If the threshold were to be raised, it should be set at somewhere around 2. It'd make such a difference.
You know, I stopped shaving to think of something to write here. That worked out well.
Will Cooper
@Coop
Age 41, Male
Author / NG Mod
Old Skool
Vancouver, CANADA
Joined on 4/28/04
- Level:
- 60
- Exp Points:
- 39,210 / 100,000
- Exp Rank:
- 251
- Vote Power:
- 10.00 votes
- Rank:
- Sup. Commander
- Global Rank:
- 31
- Blams:
- 31,773
- Saves:
- 98,588
- B/P Bonus:
- 60%
- Whistle:
- Deity
- Trophies:
- 1
- Medals:
- 2,830
- Supporter:
- 1y 1m
- Gear:
- 7
I'd be happy with 1.8, to see if that makes any difference to start with.
Maybe keep 2.0 in mind as an afterthought.
Option 1 is the best, I think. If everyone would just vote on the QUALITY of an flash, shit like the KK-Flashes would never pass judgement.
I have to admit that at some time I thought: "Ah, this will pass, so I'll vote 2 and get the save point." but my moral standards - as you called it - have changed. I am not afraid to vote 0 on a shitty flash, even though I know it will pass judgement anyway.
And I really hope that other "stat whores" come to their senses as well.
Oh, and if Tom would raise the threshold to 1.8 (or higher), it sure would help to get rid of the spam entries.
I'm glad to hear that you're not afraid to vote 0 on crap spam flash. The problem being that we are the majority of users and it is still happening. Mainly because while the majority of us users do the right thing, the groups get it through by being there at the time the movie is submitted and voting it through with their 5s.
Sadly, this will mean that they gradually grow in power, as they climb the ranks, gaining their 60% extra voting power.
OK I could not agree more that the prota is turned into a mindless breeding gorund.
Now clock day is a complete farce of what it was ment to be back in 02,03, and 04 it was clock day, there was flash by actually clocks.
Now it a shit fes on the portal, sure a couple of good thigns get submitted, but anyone and everyone just submits anythign and it passed.
The voters mindset is I'll vote 2 because it's going to pass anyway.
That mind set is the whole problem way too many people vote 2 or higher on crap, because of who submit it rather than voting on the quality of the flash, and I don't mean the flash has too look awesome, I totaly agree with Tom in the point some times a so so looking flash can funnier than ehll and should stay on the portal. Yet the crap that is staying on the portal that should be blamemd is neither funny or has any real purpose.
I slightly blame the ss for starting this, they used some flaws in ng to get thigns to mpass and that started the mindset well it's going to pass anyway so I better just vote 2 or higher. The SS the splinter groups from it, KK, Fleek, etc. Have all taken advantage of this mindset.
All some people from those groups want to do is submit the most offense pece of crap they can to see how many peopel they can piss off. That is how they get there thills.
I don't expect Tom do do anything about this, sure the admins will take anything highly offensive off the portal, but otehr than that they are too distracted with other stuff.
It's up to the people who vote to really change the trend of things, I'm not saying all the stuff various groups deserve a 0, but if it looks like crap sounds like crap, and has no humor it should go.
I'm glad that some of them do it - it spawns hundreds of abusive reviews for flagging and subsequent deletion. However, we could survive without groups like the Kitty Krew, Socom Squad and Barney Bunch with no trouble at all.
Sorry for some of the spelling mistakes the whole issue just pisses me off so much all I see is red, well I wish I saw more red in the portal. :)
I forgot to address your question, as much as anyone would like to see it, I can't see Tom raising the score for a submission to make it into the portal. Tom has a long standing of siding with the flash authors, mostly without whom the site would not be what it is today, I have been coming to the site on and off for many years now. I recognize that it is the flash authors that do help the site grow as well as the many fans. That the tend is NG is growing even still today, things have change drastically over the years.
Really that leaves you with option 1, well it can be possible to get others that agree things in the portal are out of whack, well you may attack some here, others that are frustrated with things just either leave the site or just come to the site to check thing out every once in a while. People like me are so fricken sick of the portal they don't even go to it anymore.
It comes down to how can you spread awareness, wake people out this mindless vote 2 on crap because if I don't I might loose point. If we can get people more voting the fact if they liked it or not, I'm almost sure you see more crap get blammed.
If you look at the active people voting these days, you will see a huge diffrence than those of years past, compare the top 2 b/p if they still are denvish and ramagi, thier blams are considerably higher than there saves, then look at the active people you will see their saves percentage is much higher.
All they want is that POINT! I'm for spreading awareness.
How about another change? I've put forward the option of raising the pass judgement bar, but how about making another threshold for passing judgement? The current max for judgement is 200 votes, so if Newgrounds is growing, why not raise it to 250 and then you could add the 1.8 seamlessly.
I've PMed Tom and if I ever get an answer, I'll let you all know.
So, to help you spread the word I added a link to this entry to my signature ^^.
And I have thought of another way to get rid of spam: If we could blow the whistle on spam submissions (like this for example: <a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/401010">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view /401010</a> ), all those crews had no chance on mass voting their submissions through judgement.
And we could get blam points this way, too: Blow the whistle, vote 0 => Movie gets deleted => Blam point AND whistle point earned ^^.
Whistling spam submissions puts the workload back on the admins, who I'm sure are busy trying to get other issues dealt with.
I'd love to personally see everyone vote fairly on each and every submission, as believe it or not, there is the occasional good submission from these groups (so long as they aren't fileswapped towards the end of judgement)
I agree with you 100% percent. Only reason spam is getting past is for these two factors:
1) Lowered Expectations...
2) Spam Fanboys, but the most important one of all...
3) Mass-Voters (yes, Kitty Krew, I'm talking to you)
Lowered expectations and spam fanboys are one thing, but now there's encouraged mass-voting??? Trust me, no one like to see stuff they made and/or like that's under judgement get blammed or (if it's utter shit) saved.
We shall notify Tom Fulp about those alt accounts and the mass-voting. Maybe he can make a rule that the author(s) cannot vote on his/her own Flash. That might increase the chance of mass-voting and maybe sort things right again.
The Kitty Krew really are small fry compared to the Star Syndicate, who started all of this off. Granted, their brand of shit flash has taken it to a new level, but you should really vote on each flash as it comes, rather than saying "Oh, it's Kitty Krew, BLAM!" That would make you as bad as them :P
I've sent a PM to Tom to try and find out, but don't hold your breath for a response (although Tom responding to this news post would be amazing!)
I'm right behind you, I feel the exact same way.
Thanks for your support
Your right I wasn't here that much before clock day but I can definitely tell a difference. I used to get about 35 blams and 45 protects a day, it was pretty much split down the middle on stuff getting through and stuff getting blammed. My figures after clock day show me at 15 blams and 50 protects a day, and most of those extra saves would of been blam points before clock day.
My basic hypothesis for this is all of the newbies from clock day and the day after clock day saw everything passing so they started fiving everything that came in, they might have a low voting power but they take up votes that would be 0's from higher voting people. The second part of it is the chain reaction off of that from hardcore statwhores who see all of the shit passing and start just giving them a 2 instead of 0 for the protection point.
I also was recently checking out the kitty krew forums and I noticed that they don't even mass vote on their own submissions anymore, they all pass from just normal newgrounders voting them through.
Your 1.8 idea is a very good idea in my opinion it's just people have proposed it before and Tom still won't do anything about it, we just have to deal with all of the junk getting through the portal.
Although it seems to have returned to normal (more or less), we need to get this point heard - The threshold needs to be raised and we're in a situation where the SPAM flash still get through mostly. Increased vigilance helps as well, so keep that up!
Maybe we should be allotted amounts of type of votes we can give out, via percentages. Like so:
0 or 5: 15% of voting power. Once used, can't use again until other percentages even out to allow another vote.
1 or 4: 35% of voting power.
3: 50%
If people were limited to how often they could kick the shit out of a flash or praise one with the coveted 5, then maybe they'd be more likely to give it out fairly.
Nah, I think that doesn't work, because if you vote more 3's on stuff, you would gain more 0s and 5's to dish out, which is a confusing issue already.
Notice how alot of spammers are getting 2.5? I saw picture of a dog getting hit with a sprinkler and flashing colors get that score. That's like the worse thing i've seen. It seems like raising the bar wont matter anymore. From the looks of it newgrounders will have to get rid of them themselves. Which knowing how most of the people on newgrounds would simply say " haha you fags i'm gonna 5 to piss you off".
It seems more like the only way spam will decrease is by some rare chance the people on newgrounds has to get more mature. It seems to me that only new users and the mature old users care. Other than that everyone's 2ing and 5ing. It's the sad truth. Hopefully this trend will decrease once everyone forgets clock day.
Tom should make the rules more strict by simply putting rules for useless images flying around,nothing but flashing colors,flaggable after uj,and just rules to get rid of the most frequent types of spam. It seems almos impossible to get people to care bout the flash portal when the most frequent users only use the bbs and when someone says things need to be changed they get the obvious "get a life haha fag" remarks. Hopefully newgrounds will start attractng more older people.
We need to have a program for P-Bot, so that he can tell fileswaps and just delete them. IP bans for persistant offenders would also help, as it's stifling the truly talented majority of Flash users on this site.
I think liljim should just fucking fix the portal. I am getting only a fraction (1 or 2) of the blams I deserve!
We will prevail, simple as that.
So are you gonna update the responces list now that their up again? It's the only list im on =)
New news post due in the next few minutes / hours, depandant upon office activity during said period :)
It's a good idea in my opinion, although it isn't noob friendly. I'm sure it'd be good for NG. They'd just need to do a little programming. SPAM deserves everyone's 0. If the bar was aised to 1.80, or even 1.70, half the sht in the portal wouldn't get through. I hope you guys see it Coop's way like I do. He has the right idea.
Glad to see that we still have people thinking along the right lines
You're right on the first part. People just have to stand up for what they believe in. No more "It's a KK movie, so instant 5", just fair voting. Of course, the bad stat whores will never cease and realise they are slowly destroying NG.
However, your 2nd point, I think, doesn't really help. Most of the crap on NG is from Krews, and I've seen the latest piece of crap get through with a score of 2.5/5.00.
And if Tom raised the threshold to 2.5, all of the actually pretty good games and movies out there would never get through because it's their first (good) attempt at something, forcing people to think "It's their first try, low score".
I know I've had an experience with that: Just a Day In ClayWorld 1 got through with a score of 1.9, whereas JADICW 2 got through with 3.2. That's a huge difference, even taking into account the fact that JADICW 2 was better.
I hope you listen to this; I've put alot of effort into it. I just hope that the village idiots of NG come to their senses...
Well, there's got to be a way to get around all of this spammy crap. Tom or Bob could surely give more privalages to P-Bot, allowing him to ban users who submit flash which break the rules and put rules in about 0.1kb single image files etc.
We're ready for tighter controls, the only account I ever knew was deleted for something similar was SevenStar, for posting Child Porn.
Usually I only try to rack up B/P points after I've submitted my own work. However, I can tell that every NGer is needed to help fight the spam invaders, so I'm signing up!
Spam invaders ... that gives me an idea ...
Send me a link when you've made that movie / game
Agreed.
Word
Why the fuck are you caring? You aren't forced to watch those crap movies, are you?
I vote on them. I'd like to think that my vote of 0 goes towards making the Flash Portal a better place. Without people like me, Newgrounds wouldn't be the place it is today. I'm not going to sit idly by and let people ruin what I love.
i too have noticed that my saves are better than blams. nowadays it seems any crap can get through the portal
Not quite any crap, unless you mean during Clock Day.
I'm with you, I can't stand all the spam getting into the portal.
Good man, you know where the portal is.
X-Naut
I agree with what you've said. There's so much spam in the portal, it's not even funny. Most of have passed with scores of 2 and higher, and I think I recall one that passed with a score of 3.
It's ridiculous.
And although it doesn't look like many of these flashes are being blammed, I will not let that stop me from doing my part.
Coop
We need all the help we can get. We just need to see some affirmative action from the Admins to sort this problem out